USER FORUM NOTES - FIELD SEASON 2004 - TOOLIK FIELD STATION

 

Notes from the third User Forum, 8/22/04
Mike Abels and Donie Bret-Harte represented the Toolik management team. Mary Anne Evans, Jim Laundre, Peter Ray, Gus Shaver, Chris Crockett, Peter McKinnon, Molly Marvel, and Scott Houghton attended. Donie Bret-Harte recorded these notes, in consultation with others who attended the meeting.

Jim Laundre asked when the new incinerator would arrive, as it was predicted to get here sometime this season. Mike Abels responded that the incinerator is currently in Anchorage, where VPR is building an enclosure for it. It should be installed at Toolik before VPR leaves Toolik this fall. It is not clear whether the incinerator was designed to burn trash, but Mike assured those present that it is a double burner unit that should not produce any odor or particulates if operated correctly.
Chris Crockett asked about the plans for producing lab quality water on site. When Craig Woollard was at Toolik in July, it seemed as if TFS was on the verge of producing lab quality water. Mike commented that Dan White will come to Toolik next week to work on the system. Scott Houghton commented that Craig Woollard did produce 1000 gallons of RO water to test the system, but that one of the pumps malfunctioned and some pipe had not been ordered in a timely fashion. These problems are now rectified. Mike said that ADEC needs to sign off on the system before water can be used in the kitchen or for the showers, but that should not be an impediment to using the water in the labs. Someone on the TFS staff also needs a license to operate the water plant, under remote supervision. Scott would like to become certified as a partial apprentice this winter. The water treatment trailer should be up and running in early June of next year. The membrane units from the water treatment plant will be backhauled to Fairbanks for winter, to protect the units against freezing. Dan White and Chris are now in contact, and plan to touch base before the beginning of field season 05.
Jim Laundre asked about the current plans for the wash-up trailer. Mike commented that the existing old wash trailer and nearby towers will have to be moved in order to start work on the Science Support Building. The solution to the loss of the old wash-up trailer is to expand the existing shower module to add additional wash-up space, which work is planned for next spring. This provoked a long discussion concerning wash-up facilities and laundry.
Peter Ray pointed out that the sinks in the shower module are no good for shaving, because they don't provide hot water in the time it would take to fill a suitable basin. The sink in the old wash-up trailer is much better in this respect. Jim Laundre and Chris agreed that the sinks in the shower module are ok for washing hands, but not for anything else. Also, the existing shower module has very poor ventilation, and there is not enough space for towels. There was general agreement on these points. Scott commented that the windows in the shower module are very small, so cannot provide adequate ventilation. Perhaps fans would improve the situation. Jim agreed, and noted that it is not good to hang the towels in the same area as the showers, because they do not dry. Mike commented that to meet ADEC regulations, towels will have to be hung in lockers without doors, because regular hooks on the wall are not acceptable. Mike also said that Kumin (the architects) will consider ventilation, cubby holes for towels, and hot water in their design for the new wash-up facility.
Jim commented that, if a washeteria is eventually to be built on the residence side of camp, it might make sense to move the shower module over there now, and put in the greywater tank that will eventually be used. There was general agreement that moving the shower to the residence side of camp would be a good idea. However, it was felt that it would be important to retain a hand-washing sink somewhere near the labs.
Jim commented that even with two washers and dryers, there is often a wait to do laundry, even during the week. There was general agreement that the laundry capacity is not adequate during the peak season, and that getting additional washers and dryers should be part of any revision to the washing facilities. At least one more washer and dryer is needed for field season 05. Shower capacity was felt to be adequate at the present time, although some people have reported having to wait in the women's shower.
Mary Anne Evans added that the current location of the shower module is not convenient for those who want to wash their hands before going to supper. Jim and others noted that it would be much better to have a wash-up sink in the arctic entryway to the dining hall, so that people coming into dinner could wash their hands on the way in. An expanded arctic entryway (at least 10 x 20 feet) might also help alleviate the lines that build up at dinner-time, while providing a place for people to wait for food out of the weather. It was also felt that an expanded arctic entryway might allow a more efficient configuration in the food line, so that people could move forward more quickly, without getting in each other's way. This opened a long discussion on the dining hall and kitchen.
The first comment was that a better space for making lunches is needed in the dining hall. The current space is right next to the tables, so that people making lunch bump up against people seating at the tables. Also, it is hard to get stuff in and out of the refrigerators in the midst of general traffic, which makes it harder for the staff and Toolik users to make sure food gets put away after people make lunches. There was general agreement that the dining hall needs to be expanded. Scott suggested that the small refrigerator could be inaugurated as a left-over fridge, which might help to relieve congestion in the main refrigerator. (This refrigerator is on-site and is new; it was the first replacement for the old refrigerator that had doors opening outward, but was too small for the space.) Jim thought that perhaps it would be good to have separate refrigerators for the lunch makings and the leftovers. Peter commented that reducing the number of soda cans in the refrigerator would make more space. There was some discussion over whether having a soda machine would be better than purchasing soda in cans, but some people take the cans into the field for lunch.
Also in the dining hall, it was pointed out that having the coat hooks behind the Preway stove is a hazard when the stove is in operation. Perhaps the expanded arctic entryway could include a lot of coat hooks, and Gus Shaver suggested that a window would also be nice. Scott proposed that in the meantime, the cleaning supplies that are in the existing arctic entryway could be relocated, and additional hooks put in there. Jim wondered if we couldn't get another heat source for the dining hall, and do away with the Preway altogether. Mike suggested that a monitor-type stove might be a better bet, smaller and less hazardous.
People also noted that the ventilation in the dining hall is poor, so that this summer (which was unusually warm), it was often unbearably hot. None of the windows currently open. Scott and Molly Marvel also commented that ventilation in the kitchen is poor, which is hard on the staff members that work in there. Better ventilation in the kitchen would improve the situation in the dining hall, because the kitchen is the source of a lot of the heat. It was also suggested that replacing two of the upper windows with opening windows at each end of the dining hall and putting an exhaust fan in one of them would improve the situation. Opening windows by themselves probably wouldn't be enough. Jim commented that adding more noise to the dining hall was not advisable, so a quiet fan would be necessary. Scott commented that if a larger arctic entryway were built, perhaps the ice machine could be moved out there, which would remove another big heat source from the dining area. Mike commented that the ice machine was only approved for the dining hall (rather than the kitchen) because access is needed for scientific purposes and food service.
Mike commented that plans are proceeding to screen in the back deck, which would provide additional space and extend its usefulness, but that there were some issues about providing a clear path to a fire exit. People were enthusiastic about screening in the porch. Peter and Scott commented that the overflow dining tent is very nice, but that it is a bit of a hassle to get into it, and it is too bad that it is not connected. The base could be rotated or moved, and perhaps a decking path could be used to connect it to the porch. Jim also commented that it would be nice to put a window in the tent that looks out toward the lake.
Scott wondered whether there are plans to provide a larger kitchen/dining area. Mike replied that the kitchen/dining upgrade is the next priority after the Science Support Building. Jim added that anything that could be done to increase the available space in the existing kitchen/dining area now would be helpful. There was general agreement that building a larger arctic entryway onto the front of the dining hall would reduce the crowding and allow more efficient use of the existing dining hall space in the meantime, and should be a high priority for next year.
There was some discussion of the feasibility of moving the manager's office out of the trailer next to the dining hall, to free up more space for dining. It is planned that this will happen eventually, once the Science Support Building is completed, and the fiberoptic terminal is moved there, but the question of whether to move the manager's office earlier was discussed. If the manager's office was moved, the fiberoptic terminal could be enclosed, and perhaps ventilation there could be improved. Jim commented that it was often over 90 degrees F there this summer. The existing wash-up trailer was proposed as one location for the manager's office until the Science Support Building is completed, along with the herbarium and/or library. However, Jim thought that the best use of the washup trailer would be for the herbarium and library, along with the general use computers from the winter lab. (The wash-up trailer is not isotope-free, and it was suggested that it might not be possible to clean it completely, because of the furnace.) Also, since the FAX machine, general use computer, fiberoptic terminal, and other communications equipment all need to be close together, the cost of moving the office before the Science Support Building is completed is probably not worth the gain. Wherever the manager's office might be located, it needs to have a view of the entrance into camp, where trucks and people arrive.
There was some discussion of food. Everyone agreed that the cooks have been working really hard and doing a stellar job under difficult conditions. Jim commented that camp has mostly worked very well, and the food has been good. Scott requested that in the future, there be more vegetables available for lunch, and fewer deep-fried lunch entrees. The type of vegetables usually offered for the salad bar would be good at lunch also. Peter agreed, but remarked that there are a lot more vegetables in the meals now than when he first started coming to Toolik. Molly commented that sometimes the vegetables take so long to arrive at Toolik that they go bad right away. People felt that having continental breakfasts on Sundays generally worked very well as long as plenty of supplies were put out the night before, and that it was very important to give the cooks a bit of a break. Several people commented that it was not necessary to have pizza every Saturday night, and the cooks could be allowed more creativity in developing menus. Jim suggested that purchasing several large air pots in which a gallon or so of coffee could be made at one time would be an improvement over the current coffee maker, especially during peak season. Mary Anne commented that it would be nice to have bulk dispensers for granola, other cereals, nuts, and rice cracker snack mixes. Any bulk items not in dispensers need scoops. There was also a request for more granola bars and better yogurt.
Mary Anne commented that the sofas that Rich has been getting from university surplus for the meeting trailer are mostly not very comfortable, even though they are solidly built. Molly and Scott agreed to serve on a sofa committee, and let Mike know when they found something that was comfortable.
Jim commented that the oven room in lab 2 is really hot. It needs a fan, or better ventilation. This is undoubtedly true in lab 4, as well. Mary Anne added that the -80 degree freezer in lab 1 also makes the central room unbearably hot, and that it could use ventilation as well. It was suggested that all three rooms be retrofitted for fans at the same time.
Chris commented that educational classes using Toolik need a more extensive orientation, for both camp and science issues. It is not completely clear whose responsibility this should be, but large groups have a big impact on residents already here, and it is important to discuss etiquette and encourage sensitivity to residents. Some members of the recent class lingered by sampling units and impeded work by technicians.
Jim commented that it is very important to have a way of identifying staff members with pictures and a job description. It would also be very helpful to post pictures of the scientific liaisons while they are serving. Pictures could be taken with Rich's digital camera and should be printed in a large, easy-to-view size.
Peter commented that the collars in the towers should not be translucent, so that one does not have to look at the contents of the outhouse. Scott offered to paint them black, if Rich agrees.
Chris asked whether he could talk to VPR while they are here about making a better path to the boats. The current path is steep, and covered with gravel that moves underfoot, creating a hazard. Scott has some ideas about possible improvements, also. Mike suggested that they both speak to Jay Burnside now about the scope of what is needed, so that the request can be put into next year's budget. Jay and Chris did talk about the issue before leaving Toolik. Chris may ask Rich to take some digital pictures of the path area before the camp shuts down for the winter.
The issue of providing grey water tanks and a plumbing upgrade for the wet lab was discussed. As soon as the plan for the inside cabinets is completed, VPR will develop a plumbing plan for next year. Chris and Rich Flanders have finished their discussions on the cabinets, and Rich is working on drawing up a detailed floor plan, which Chris will review before it is given to VPR.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the User Forum and provided their comments.

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Notes from the second User Forum, July 20, 2004.
Brian Barnes, Mike Abels, and Donie Bret-Harte represented the Toolik management team, facility supervisor Rich Flanders attended. Donie Bret-Harte recorded these notes, in consultation with others who attended the meeting.

Brian Barnes gave a brief overview of the Toolik development plan (the development plan is continuing, and the science support building is the next large capital project). He also discussed IAB's application for renewal of the Co-operative Agreement that currently funds the base costs of the TFS operations. He commented that user comments play an important role in setting the directions for TFS activities at the annual steering committee meeting. This year, the Steering Committee meeting will take place in San Francisco, in conjunction with the AGU meeting. IAB will also be seeking funding to hold a Science Vision Workshop, in order to discuss the priorities for expanded science support with members of the scientific community. We hope that members of the Toolik user community and scientists with experience at other field stations will participate. Bruce Peterson commented that the Toolik GIS facility has turned out to be incredibly useful to his research, in ways that he did not originally foresee. He felt that IAB should consider expanding scientific support even if not all members of the science community are unanimous in their support, though support from the community is obviously needed to make it work.

There was much discussion of the internet and phone systems. TFS had just experienced a week without phone or internet service, due to equipment failure after several intense electrical storms. Bruce Peterson suggested that it would be very helpful if IAB could manage a list of primary/emergency contacts for people who are in residence at the station, and send out a message from Fairbanks to those people, telling them what has happened, if the internet goes down here. Now that TFS normally has such phone and email access, people are not expecting to be out of communication, and their loved ones worry. The list could be compiled each year from the emergency contacts already listed in the on-line reservation forms. Mike Abels agreed to generate such a list.

Ken Irving wondered whether TFS could acquire another phone system, such as Starband, so that there is communication redundancy if the internet goes down. This is particularly important now that we are dependent on the regular communications system for all supplies. The analog phones that were formerly in the winter lab are no longer available. Mike Abels noted that new equipment will allow redundancy within the T-1 line, but that analog phone service to TFS is expected to disappear once Alascom completes its sale of the phone lines and equipment to Alyeska. There is some possibility that GCI will operate the phone system for Alyeska, and could continue to serve TFS. However, we cannot count on this. Mike also said that acquisition of a Starband system is in progress, but will not be complete until the end of the summer. Chris Crockett wondered what short-term options were available now for phone service when the internet is down. Rich Flanders commented that there is an analog phone in winter quarters which is available, although it also was not working well during the recent period when the internet was down. Brian Barnes commented that since UAF has satellite phones, TFS should go ahead and use them in a case like this, as well as for emergencies. There are currently 4 satellite phones in camp, and anyone who needs to use one should see Rich. Rich commented that both of the normal phone systems (internet and analog in the winter quarters) are now fixed and working.

Brian asked how people felt about the food, and Chris Crockett commented that the cooks are doing a great job; the food is refreshing (but so good that it makes you fat). Bruce Peterson commented that overall camp is running quite well right now; the service is good and the staff is helpful. It is easier on the staff when there are fewer scientists; it was fairly stressful for them when there were more than 100 people, even though the staff continued to do a good job.

There was discussion of shipping and receiving. Users commented that shipping seems to be somewhat slow right now; was that because of the fires along the Dalton Highway? Rich commented that the Dalton is open right now, but not much freight is coming into camp because it is the middle of the season. Anyone who has outgoing freight should contact Rich, and he will schedule a southbound truck. Chris Crockett and Suzanne Randazzo commented that overall, shipping and receiving are working well this year, and they received all the freight that they were expecting. Chris commented that the label system seem to be working well, and the overflow tent for shipping/receiving is making a big difference in keeping the incoming freight organized.

More on-site overwinter storage is a high priority for users, because a number of the labs are not very usable in the shoulder season because they are filled with items stored over the winter. This was also noted at the last user meeting. Mike commented that one Conex has been set up near Lab 3, and another one is coming. They will be equipped with shelving and lights. Mike and Rich do not want the new Conexes to get like the current Aquatics Conex, which is stuffed so full of equipment that it is basically not usable. A number of users commented that this is partly because the current Aquatics conex has no interior shelving, and because there are too many groups that are trying to use it. Additional Conex space, with shelving, should alleviate this problem. Some groups do need to clean house, as well.

Rich asked that Adrian Green and Chris Crockett give him information on requested cabinet upgrades for the wet and dry labs so that plans could be developed at the end of the season. He wondered whether more small drying ovens, balances, and shaker tables would be needed. Chris commented that his highest priority for the wet lab would be to get running water and a grey water tank installed, because there is so much glassware that needs to be washed and rinsed with DI on a regular basis. DI rinses currently go into the HAZMAT waste. Plumbing and interior upgrades for the wet and dry labs are not in the budget for this year, but they are planned for inclusion next year. Chris and Rich will get together before the end of the season to finalize plans for cabinets in the wet and dry labs . The new water system should be on-line soon, but the distribution system through camp may take longer. Barrels for lab water (for making DI water) can be filled at the water treatment trailer, then hauled around to the labs as occurs now. Users were excited to hear that TFS will soon be able to generate lab quality water on-site.

Mike asked how the new HAZMAT system is working so far. Molly Marvel has been on break, and her replacement does not have as much training on HAZMAT issues, but she will be coming back soon. Chris Crockett commented that right now there are plenty of HAZMAT barrels, and the HAZMAT processing system is going well. Bill Krause will bring more barrels and signage. Suzanne commented that the dry lab needs a sign about how to dispose of waste, even though the sink there is not hooked up. Chris commented that the wet lab needs a pump funnel, similar to the one that is used for DI, in order to pump waste into larger containers. By the time these notes were written, Scott Houghton had made a large waste funnel for wet lab users, in conjunction with their siphon system, and this was working well.

Trash was discussed. Rich reminded users to keep the aluminum recycling containers clean and free of trash. Scott Houghton suggested that it might be helpful to color-code the trash cans, for instance by painting the burnable trash cans red, and painting the aluminum recycling containers blue. Users thought that this would be helpful. Rich reminded users that juice boxes should be put in the burnable trash. The new incinerator, which should produce less particulate pollution since it has a double-burning system, should arrive later this season.

Brian told everyone that Arden Bement, the acting Director of the NSF, and Steve Jones, the new chancellor of UAF, will be visiting TFS on August 19.

 

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Notes from the first Toolik Field Station User Forum, June 23, 2004

Mike Abels and Donie Bret-Harte represented the IAB Toolik management team, Facility supervisor Richard Flanders attended.   Donie Bret-Harte recorded these notes, in consultation with others who attended the meeting.

 

Users commented that, in general, camp is running smoothly so far this year. Chris Crockett commented that Rich, Scott, Kevin, and Trevor have been very helpful with the docks, boat motors, and other issues, and that having a dedicated science support maintenance person is working very well.   Anne Giblin noted that the shipping of packages is going better this year than last year.  Most packages are arriving before the scientists do, and tracking is better.  Mike Abels commented that the person who is doing most of the computer entry for package tracking in Fairbanks this season is doing a better job than the person who did it last year.  Rich Flanders noted that there are a number of packages that are not labeled well enough to determine who they are for; these are in the tent next to the shipping and receiving tent, so anyone who is missing a package should check there.  Rich also mentioned that users should save their packaging for chemicals that they plan to store over the winter in Fairbanks, as they cannot be shipped without HAZMAT packaging.  More information on how to ship chemicals for winter storage would be appreciated before the end of the season. 

Gus Shaver mentioned that the LTER Coordinating Committee will be coming in August, and will need lecture space for 50.   Two possibilities are to use the new daycare center, or the shipping/receiving tent.  Rich and Donie suggested that the daycare center might be used for lectures and classes instead of the meeting trailer, when no children are in camp.  The meeting trailer could then be used full-time for recreation, except for the GIS office.  This has the advantage of keeping the recreation area and sleeping areas apart, and the daycare center is a better shape for lectures, as it is not so long and narrow as the meeting trailer.  Mike Abels agreed to provide padded folding chairs for use in the daycare center and/or shipping/tent (for the LTER Coordinating Committee visit). 

Chris Crockett commented that the new snorkel hood in the wet lab is working well for running chlorophyll determinations.  There seems to be enough make-up air; he will let IAB know if it needs adjustment. 

Craig Woolard of UAA was visiting camp to bring the new micro/nanofiltration water treatment plant on-line for tests.  When it becomes fully operational, the camp will have state of the art drinking water, and will not have to ship up RO water from Fairbanks, as the treated water will be good enough for lab use after being run through the Barnsted filters that are already here (it will not clog them up).  Users were excited to hear this.  Craig will give a seminar on the new water system when he returns in July.

Craig also commented on the perennially smelly outhouses, as Mike had discussed this with him.  Craig pointed out that since the highest vent location in the outhouses is the seats, it is unlikely that any fan arrangement will work to keep them from smelling.  Mike wondered whether IAB management should put time and effort into coming up with a new design, one that would perhaps use a very low-flow, water-based system.  Scott Houghton commented that the outhouses heat up in the sun, and this causes more convection.  Perhaps insulating them would reduce convection and the odor.  Rich has some ideas for new fans that might also help.  Gus Shaver commented that if the outhouse odor is all that people have to complain about, the camp is being managed well.   The question of whether to devise a new outhouse design is still open; if you have comments, please email Mike Abels.

Much discussion centered on laboratory safety and disposal of HAZMAT items.  Now that Josh Pobrislo has left IAB, the EMT/Safety officer does not have a lot of experience in HAZMAT issues.  Mike is hoping to make the guidelines for dealing with HAZMAT as simple and transparent as possible.  Bill Krause from UAF Environmental Health and Safety will make at least two trips per season to inspect the laboratories and bring HAZMAT items to Fairbanks for disposal.  HAZMAT items waiting for disposal should be placed in the storage locker (former Pluckery trailer) to the north of the shipping/receiving tent.  Guidelines will be posted in the locker as to how items should be stored, including a list of 4 (or so) common categories, and who to contact if your item does not fall into one of those categories.  Bill Krause will handle neutralizing acids for us prior to transport.  Chris Crockett commented that additional containers for disposal are needed; Mike said that they have been ordered.  While laboratory safety training is ultimately the responsibility of the employer, Ian Washburne will handle safety training for users of the wet lab by showing a video and running a short orientation most Fridays.  Molly Marvel (IAB EMT) will coordinate with Ian and Chris to show the video and provide general lab training for other users. There was additional discussion of what items can and cannot be put down the lab sinks.  A number of people have said that they were confused, and that signs over each sink would helpful.  Mike is going to work on a policy after consulting with Bill Krause, and Molly will post signs over every laboratory sink.  (Signs were posted by the time these notes were written.)  Chris Crockett pointed out that the wet lab, where most chemistry is done, has a much smaller tank, which is not connected to the general-use sink than all the other labs. Over the longer term, the wet lab needs to get a larger wastewater tank connected to the general use sink.

Chris Crockett requested that either a boardwalk be built to the boat dock, or other options explored, to reduce erosion and make it easier to transport heavy items to the boats.  Rich will work with VPR to get a boardwalk in progress.  Boat users and their PIs would like to provide input to the final plan, before it is executed.

A number of users could not attend the User Forum because they had already left camp, but they sent comments to be discussed and included with the notes.  Jim Laundre requested that a list of common HAZMAT items and instructions for dealing with them be posted, and that instructions for what can be disposed of down the lab sinks be posted over each sink.  These comments are dealt with above.  He also commented that, in his view, the proposed design for the new washhouse contains too many sinks.  It seems that the women use more sinks under the current arrangement than the men do.  Other users commented that overall camp seems to be running very smoothly this year, but pointed out a few areas that need improvement.  The toilets in the new dorm need to be cleaned more often, at least once a week.  Users in the new dorm seem to be taking a lot of showers, and need to be told in their orientation not to shower every day unless absolutely necessary, and to turn off the shower (using the button on the shower head) when soaping up.  It was suggested that an updated staff picture board with the jobs of the staff clearly-labeled would be helpful, so that people can identify staff members. The name of the current Scientific Liaison is posted in the communications room and announced at seminars, but evidently some people have not seen it.  Finally, some information on where cleaning supplies (brooms, dustpans, vacuums, etc.) that are accessible to users are located needs to be either posted or mentioned in the orientation.  It could also be included in “Your Stay at Toolik.” 

Mike commented that users need to make an effort to ensure that no trash is included in the aluminum recycling bins, or the recycling company will throw out the contents of the bin.  Rich commented aluminum can crushers are available for the lab trailers if desired.  Chris requested one for the wet lab, and received it the next day.  Rich also suggested that a lab contact be designated in each lab, who would help to orient new users of the lab as personnel change.  Finally, he pointed out that it is the responsibility of scientific personnel to clean out the lab refrigerators of all samples, chemicals, etc. at the end of the season.  Some labs do well, but in others people have left the refrigerators full when they left, which is a problem for the camp staff.

Finally, Scott Houghton commented that there currently is no private place to make a phone call, especially if you don’t have your own office or private area in the labs.  A centrally-located phone booth (or closet) would be very helpful.

Subsequent to the User Forum, John Hobbie commented that eye protection and hearing protection were not evident in the shipping/receiving/shop tent, and that a safety orientation for tool use by scientists should be required before turning them loose with the power tools.  This could perhaps be a duty of the scientific support maintenance person.

 
George Kling commented that the most pressing issues for early season (May) users are 1) the need for overwinter storage, so that the labs are not packed full of other people’s gear and unavailable for use, and 2) the need for access to shower and laundry facilities before the regular washhouse is connected.  Additional Conexes with shelves and fluorescent lighting would solve the overwinter storage problem; it would be ideal if they could be installed before the end of this season.  (One overwinter science CONEX box was in the final stage of setup by Lab 3 during this meeting)

The next User Forum will occur in mid-July, when Brian Barnes and Mike Abels are in camp. 

 

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