Bill: You had talked too about the moon and how you could use the moon as a predictor. And the stars. Do you want to talk about that?

Kenneth: Yeah, I could. In the early days they used to have ceremony with the moon, the stuff like that. But there's the story was the little boy went into the moon, and that little boy he said in the hardship of the people. He said in the future I will give your generation, in the future generation, I'll give them sign for everything, you know for like weather, hardship, starvation, war, those things you know like that. So that's why even today that if you look at the sun and the moon, it'll give you sign. It'll either be warm or either be cold. It'll either be cold in the morning or cold at night or wind will come, it'll tell you everything. If it's gonna snow, even it's gonna be cold, it'll tell you. So in the early days like those grandparents always watch that, they say. They always tell us, they said, grandchild, you know, I think it's gonna be cold, get lotta wood. So we always get lotta wood before that, we don't know what's going on but we get wood. And then sure enough the cold weather come. They watch that you know, they say, they know those sign.

Bill: Do you know some of those signs?

Kenneth: Just little bit when it's, like it does lot of different kind of color around the sun, and it'll show, it'll either be like snow or rain or something like that you know, or be wind. But like sometimes around that moon they got that ring around that moon. Sometimes it's different color too, but I don't know, I can't judge that. But couple elders know that. They know, see, if it have that ring around it like that that could mean it's gonna snow. Another said I found out, around a ring when there's more little abrasion like that around it then it mean another thing too.

Bill: Are those signs still working?

Kenneth: Well, I never noticed the signs do the same thing like that, if it's gonna snow it have that ring around it and if it's gonna be windy, cold too, it's gonna get cold. Sometimes you watch a, they call a sundog eh? Us, we call it vehghyuu gwaak'a'. Vehghyuu gwaak'a' mean there's a fire in front of it, and on the back side or something. In English they call it sundog eh? But as we call a fire, vehghyuu gwaak'a' mean the sun is having a fire so he wanna keep himself warm uh? So that mean it's gonna be cold. And then sometimes they have that fire on the back, or sometimes on both side. I'm getting a little confused on that one, either some of the sundog, it could mean that's it's gonna be wind too. But I'm kinda little confused on that one, I haven't put it together. I got my notes some of the answer I still got on my notes but I need to refresh my memory. Yeah, see a sun sometimes it, they call it ni¸¸'yaa digweelchaa, all tangle up. Sometimes the sun will have like 7,8 sun dog around there. Those are really, only time it does that is for hardship for the people. It does that for war or starvation or something will happen within the family of someone that sees that. So when it tangle up like that sometime you'll see 2 ring, one ring like that around the sun and then another ring on top of that. And then on top of that you'll see a curve like that on top. They call that a horn. And sometimes around there the sundog will be here and up there, up there, I think about 7 or 8 sundog all tangle up. That's, in our culture that's the only thing that the people don't like to see. That's a very, see the little boy is telling that something is gonna happen. That's why he's showing us these sign. Another thing, the northern light too. The northern light will tell you when it's gonna be very cold. It act up a lot when it's gonna get cold. It come alive. Also it, sometimes the northern light will just become just totally red. Another sign for that is a war. It's a bloodshed, you'll see lotta blood. And we had that this winter you know, you could see, all you could see is lotta bloodshed in the world. And see the little boy is showing us these little sign you know. Something like this is for the Gwich'in peoples that believe you know. You have to believe it to, because it is telling you to survive. If you don't believe this then how can you survive? So you gotta be ready for those things, you know? And another that, and the northern light too, another 2 thing he does is that one he make a tipi, make a tipi, zheh gwach'ok they call it. And also he make a round house, skin hut house. One is for, both of them is for survival, both for starvation and stuff like that. So the northern light will show us where's there's food and it make, it'll make a doorway, by watching. It'll open up a doorway, it'll have that tipi and it'll open up a doorway for you. And then our people will go in that direction for survival. They use that long time ago for survival. So those are the, so a lot of it, they use northern light and the moon, and the sun. So they get prepare for that before something like that happen. And animal too, like in fall time? Animal like ground squirrel all of a sudden will just hibernate early and the winter will come early. That way it'll tell you early, that he get ready for things, you know?

Bill: And again, those signs you think are still, still work?

Kenneth: Oh yeah, oh yeah. They use that for calendar. Lotta times if something, if they see animal does something for a certain sign, then with that sign they get themself ready for those other things real early you know? When the ground squirrel start acting up and then they have to get ready early. So they just can't wait you know, for certain things. And they could even know like middle of summer, the middle of summer when the mosquito tell them that the middle of summer. Lotta old people, they know that the time is, even that one day, they watch that mosquito. The mosquito does something, I don't know. It tell, they say ___ they say, mean changing over. The mosquito is telling us that we're in the bottom of the, they watch that, those little things.